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First Impression of Faction Warfare -- post inferno patch

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Veshta Yoshida PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 134	Posted - 2012.05.25 11:55:00 - [1] - Quote Vordak Kallager wrote: I think a lot of the "giant blob on the warp-in" problem could be solved if there were multiple entrances to a single plex deadspace zone. I'm not sure how giant of a coding task this would be, but I think it would make Plex fighting a LOT more interesting. vOv Just treat the warp-in as a regional gate, have entry happen within a 30km sphere or larger even. Or the wet dream, have a ship size check when initiating warp to plex and get rid of the gates entirely .. ie. all plexes akin to unrestricted in regards to entry point.
Veshta Yoshida PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 134	Posted - 2012.05.25 12:08:00 - [2] - Quote Duke Dantez wrote: ..Am I way off base? How does everyone else feel? After having tried to get through the thick Icelandic skulls about the extremely lop-sided balance of the Amarr/Shakorite conflict (NPCs, Geography) for going on four years, I had no intention of staying on when they decided it was a good idea to do what they did without first addressing that .. Fortunately for me the Admiralty decided it was time for some R&R (first official break since war started \o/) so didn't have to leave PIE Inc. to show my disdain for CCP and their gross mishandling of what held such enormous promise for the small scale pew and RP in Eve. Have fun being guinea pigs when CCP starts changing ** willy-nilly when preparations for the null sovereignty starts .. my guess is that they will start "tweaking" before they actually do anything to fix FW (throwing money at/in a problem doesn't fix anything, just hides the stink). Vordak Kallager wrote:** I think a lot of the "giant blob on the warp-in" problem could be solved if there were multiple entrances to a single plex deadspace zone. I'm not sure how giant of a coding task this would be, but I think it would make Plex fighting a LOT more interesting. vOv Just treat the warp-in as a regional gate, have entry happen within a 30km sphere or larger even. Or the wet dream, have a ship size check when initiating warp to plex and get rid of the gates entirely .. ie. all plexes akin to unrestricted in regards to entry point. Petition: Rename FW to FV to more accurately reflect the FarmVilleGäó tie-in of infini-LP and gaping holes waiting to be exploited. Not Bitter. Just Pissed.
Veshta Yoshida PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 138	Posted - 2012.05.25 17:29:00 - [3] - Quote Re: FW Ship Hulls If one is in a collapsed militia, one can not make any ISK selling ANYTHING that is also available through the vanilla stores, which limits the potential quite severely; Navy tier1 BS, FW implants, lol-Plates etc. Reason: FW store had same price as vanilla store for all items, except navy hulls/BPCs which were 50% .. with a x4 multiplier all items will be 2-4x the LP cost of the same item in high-sec. Or did everyone miss a massive change affecting all high-sec mission whores making all their stuff twice as expensive to get? There is currently no way for a collapsed militia to make a "come back" barring a massive influx of manpower .. want blobs much?
Veshta Yoshida PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 139	Posted - 2012.05.25 18:24:00 - [4] - Quote X Gallentius wrote: Broken, really? Kills have increased by 5x since the patch. Casual pew with consequences FTW. If somebody told me I had to move to Yvangier in order to get 5x as many kills as I did before the patch I'd help my 100 man corp move there as fast as possible. And how long do you expect that to last, sooner or later the noobs will run out. Do you think that little of your enemy? Station lock-outs are perfectly in line with how null works .. except we don't have a Titan in every constellation, a bridge in every system, bubbles or bombs .. all part of what makes null outposts "workable". And no I do not want those heinous things in FW, just pointing out that CCP chose the wrong damn thing to implement from their long list of "atrocious stuff in null". NPC null is commonly referred to as the place to be outside FW (old) for casual pew, a state made possible almost exclusively by 'free docking' .. how do any of you snowballs think FW can keep up steam when that is removed and actual balance is not even addressed?
Veshta Yoshida PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 139	Posted - 2012.05.25 18:40:00 - [5] - Quote BolsterBomb wrote: ...It was different when CCP was asking for feedback but at this point all the whining is ********. Nuff Said... When did they? As I recall practically all members of FW wanted restrictions on what can be done in stations or a reshuffle of stations + lockouts so that it was possible to actually stay in FW land when the inevitable snowball hit. This blanket lockout, when the rumours started just prior to Fanfest, had me whoring the forums in a big way as it is quite literally game-breaking. They had a "roundtable" (someone give CCP a dictionary so they can look the word up) at FF which as it turns out was nothing more than a presentation (as I expected given their knowledge of FW) and changes were made pretty much exactly as they were shown way back then. PS: Notice how I no longer solely blame CCP Sound Fail. Came to the realisation that for a moronic concept of lock-outs in low-sec the entire corporation must be in the wrong .. or someone would have shouted foul surely!
Veshta Yoshida PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 140	Posted - 2012.05.25 19:07:00 - [6] - Quote BolsterBomb wrote: Because your opinion was wrong and CCP was right. Its that simple. For every voice yelling no there was a voice yelling yes. No there really wasn't. I have been very involved in each and every FW thread since the beginning and have started several of my own and the only "request" for total lockout came from null dwellers. They may have had an alt in FW, but really no way of knowing so can't and won't base perception on that. BolsterBomb wrote: The yes's won and it is working properly. Your job is to adapt now.....but from the sounds of it there are a bunch of bitter vets that didnt even read the patch notes or if they did care about acting on it before the lockout. No longer involved in FW, so I did act by using the only tool available to me .. you see, I do not have a horde of alts to handle logistics and arrange for rehips in 'hostile' systems like you probably do. BolsterBomb wrote: I am just glad that others see the light and the few people like yourself are just stuck in the mud refusing to leave. It IS a case of bitter vet. Oh I am out of the mud, first time in four years of fighting an uphill battle against bugs, exploits and imbalances I am free of CCPs stupidity (as pertains to FW). X Gallentius wrote: ...December expansion was awesome - we saw a significant upswing in plex fighting. This patch has increased plex fighting even more. No you saw station/gate games and gank squads move to plexes .. there is a distinct difference. The volume of fights remained constant past December, locations shifted that is all .. good thing to be sure as plex fights are preferable to just about anything else in Eve.
Veshta Yoshida PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 143	Posted - 2012.05.25 22:32:00 - [7] - Quote Caveat: Just had a handful of cask ales, so ... BolsterBomb wrote: .....then why are you here complaining? Because I "grew up" in FW, having spent a few years in null I left the horrendous blobs and meta-gaming it was becoming behind to learn real pew, have fun and RP my heart out. And it was glorious for about nine months .. then CCP lost interest, pulled all staff and only did routine maintenance on what was a core feature of an entire expansion. FW still has tremendous potential .. hence why I am still here complaining/bitching/moaning/whining/whatever. Vordak Kallager wrote: The current system might not be the absolute ideal, but it is a) certainly a lot better than it used to be and b) the station lock out might be inconvenient for some people, but it doesn't break the faction warfare system. You willing to put ISK on that prediction (assuming that militias don't become blob fests with hundreds more actives per side)? FW as it has been will never be back I fear. The casual nature and the near constant solo/small gang action died with the December plex-spam change .. this will just be last nail. Would have been vastly different had they done the hard bit (ie. balance) beforehand but 'meh'. If they ever do the hard bit (they didn't even officially ask for balancing feedback until after patch was set in stone for fucks sake!) I will be back .. until then I'll trade metagaming Exploit/Farm-Ville for just about anything
Veshta Yoshida PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 144	Posted - 2012.05.26 05:53:00 - [8] - Quote Capitol One wrote: ...To each their own, you just seemed to me like you cared a great deal, with how much you lamented over our "defeat and imminent destruction/eviction". Also, I'd like to think it was our [Amarr] beliefs and spirit that made us prevail where others would've fallen :)... Been there done that. Where was everyone in the first 40 months of the war when we were ~20 people fighting the uphill battle against the odds in the plexing game .. for zero rewards? Four years have come and gone, CCP has been dutifully notified of all bugs and potential exploits I have come across and ideas for improvements have been posted by entire FW community since day one (almost) .. bug present at FW launch is still there, blatant exploits are ignored because their logs show nothing (ie. can't tell if accidental .. all umpteen times in a row) and practically all ideas/concepts has been ignored in favour of whatever they consider good end-game content (ie. null crap). FW will survive, no doubt, participants are too damn stupid and stubborn for any other outcome .. but will it be fun? Post-patch mentions seem to show by far the most fun is had on the snowball sides as they have a waaaaay easier time with infini-LP and docking everywhere .. half of the playes having fun is good right? Jones Bones wrote: Troll Funny how that coincides with T3 alts maturing thus completely breaking the game for all pew enthusiasts who don't meta-game or alt spam. Been playing, just stayed away from the neutral boosted blobbo-rama that FW turned into. Also coincides with all the high and mighty promises of :awesome: improvements for FW to be included in Incursions only to be axed when CCP realised it would actually require work.
Veshta Yoshida PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 145	Posted - 2012.05.26 11:47:00 - [9] - Quote Jade Constantine wrote: Players like Veshta did absolutely nothing to fight for their side on the run up to Inferno and spent the entire time prepping for evac while posting complaints on the forum is the brutal reality. So you perfectly fine with the massive imbalances when it comes to plexing? For the record, I started my evac immediately after the FF presentation because it was pretty evident that everything there was set in stone .. was hoping not, but decided to err on the side of caution. Jade Constantine wrote: And even now I think the single biggest problem facing the Amarr is too much negativity and not enough "can do" as demonstrated effectively by those of their comrades who did actually fight last week Gee, wonder if that ferocious fighting might have had something to do with the ability to reship/repair on-site .. if that sort of fighting continues I'd be beyond surprised. It will at best be in fits and starts and not the continues slug fest that happened in Kourm .. Jade Constantine wrote: The Faction Warfare "as was" mythologised by Veshta was about pointing lone war targets in defensive plexes with navy slicers and letting the npcs do much of the kill... Say what? Pretty sure I never did such a thing .. brawler Slicers don't exactly lend themselves well to that kind of thing .. perhaps you are confusing it with some of your own "heroics". The changes are :awesome:, or rather would have been had the four year old imbalances been addressed first or in conjunction with them .. now it seems you are lucky if FW gets fixed this coming winter judging by the "feedback" thread on NPCs. Apparently the last years numerous posts on just that topic never happened as CCP wants to start from scratch on the subject. So tell me oh wise one, how is Amarr militia supposed to make any sort of meaningful headway without blobbing the crap out everything .. much harder offensive plexing, no docking and no income to speak of (LP are worth less than 1/2 of similar LP in high-sec). It is bad for the game when things are allowed/designed to be so lop-sided .. there is a reason why pro sports have seeding's and whatnot to make sure that there is at least a semblance of competetion. Jones Bones wrote: You sound like you don't enjoy EVE. Why bother playing? Because I keep hoping beyond all reasonable hope that CCP will wake the ** up and actually look at and think about what they doing instead of ticking boxes in the database after consulting nothing but metrics. Can you imagine the **-storm that would arise if they pulled something like Inferno on the NPC null regions .. no docking based on standings/sovereignty with one party being able to achieve said standings/sovereignty 3-4 times easier than everyone else? .. yeah, that would go down smooth like
Veshta Yoshida PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 147	Posted - 2012.05.26 18:56:00 - [10] - Quote 4 years as opposed to your 4 months .. that is why my opinion matters more than yours .. nublet. The only thing I am saying, ie. repeating ad nauseum, is that FW balance is broken and has been for as long as I remember .. it should have been so high up on the list that crap like incentives/consequences were but dots on the horizon. Until the fundamentals are addressed there can be no push-back at all .. it is quite literally not theoretically possible .. Amarr would need 3-4x the Mime numbers to offensive plex with no repair/dock available. We are talking plus 3-400 actives across times-zones to be able to deal with logistics, NPCs, Mimes, Neutrals et. al. at the same time .. and no, a swarm noobs will not make much of a difference against what will likely be 100% faction fitted faction hulls flown by multi-year veterans. So if you want that mythological push-back you speak of, then go convince a medium sized null alliance to join up to a side where ISK is scarce, you have to fight with no immediate support available (docking) and enemy has equal numbers and devastatingly broken NPCs on their side.
Veshta Yoshida PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 147	Posted - 2012.05.27 08:57:00 - [11] - Quote X Gallentius wrote: 4 years + 4 months. I trump you, and therefore my opinion means more than yours. nublet. It was time in FW, not character age silly .. Ambrose Brutus wrote: ..Has any one figured out the distance we should be from the capture point to still be rewarded for our efforts? Last I heard it was in capture range (10-20km) .. period. Used to get VP for merely being on grid, but makes sense to tighten the requirement once LP is on the table. Believe requirements for LP-for-Kills has also been tightened to require being not only in fleet but also on grid .. think the only requirement was 'fleet' before.
Veshta Yoshida PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 147	Posted - 2012.05.27 10:07:00 - [12] - Quote A bit Wall-of-Texty, a few more spaces between paragraphs would be good .. but not unreadable Re: Defensive Plexing. Having it fill up 'damaged' LP would make the LP drain a one time deal (until system flip) so counter productive .. have defensive plexes repair 25-50% of damaged LP however so that you at least get a bit while still requiring a re-investment. Re: FW Missions. Has that been confirmed, that missions can go to any system that originally had hostile Sov? If so .. Holy Screw Up Batman!
Veshta Yoshida PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 147	Posted - 2012.05.27 15:34:00 - [13] - Quote Duke Dantez wrote: ..Crap.. I agree with everything you just said... Way to make me sound like a raving maniac .. I may have a stable full of dead'ish horses that I spend quite some time flogging, but outside the stable I am rather ordinary. Garr Earthbender wrote: I like this idea I heard a couple of nights ago concerning capturing plexes: Must kill all npcs inside a plex to capture it in addition to the timer. Or at least have to kill certain 'triggers.' That idea is as old as the discussion about FW NPC balance ... one of the many "proofs" that CCP has been glossing over (read: ignoring) everything related to FW the past four years Would be such a simple fix and solve some of the imbalances in that regard .. remaining would be the question of eWar and the NPCs tendency to involve themselves in the pew.
Veshta Yoshida PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 158	Posted - 2012.05.30 14:01:00 - [14] - Quote Cearain wrote: .....Or we can give feedback like they asked us to..... What makes you think it will make a difference this time around? We have been feeding them "live data" since Empyrean Age was launched and have prior to this fiasco had negligible improvements made. They claim that all is well and they are focusing on spaceships again .. but what good does that do when fixing what has grown into a fairly large niche "end-game" with no clue as to how it works (when it works) and what makes the participants tick? They dropped the ball years ago and in their fervour to make amends after the ridiculous Jita-statue emo-rage debacle picked up the nearest ball-shaped item and ran with it .. problem is that item was giant round'ish turd.
Veshta Yoshida PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 164	Posted - 2012.05.31 12:55:00 - [15] - Quote Post patch activity is always extremely high and can't be used as a data-point. Hell, you probably have people re-subbing to check things out .. do a data check in a few months time and see what that gets you. Also need to check quality of kills, if those 220/day were all Cynas/BCs/Whatnot and the 1100 are stabbed frigates ... it is something CCP doesn't fathom, metrics cannot be used as definitive anything but merely as indicators whenever human nature crosses paths with the subject being polled. Now if only they had a metric called "Funzor" .. now that I could use straight up
Veshta Yoshida PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 169	Posted - 2012.05.31 14:29:00 - [16] - Quote Har Harrison wrote: I've been involved in a few t2/t3 kills, not to mention to odd SFI and Assault Frigs, not to mention various regular BC/cruisers, so pretty sure we aren't seeing JUST t1 stabbed frigs.. It was as with all things on the internet, exaggeration for effect X Gallentius wrote: Anyways, 4-5x increase in kills is a bit too much to ignore. ... True enough .. but how about ratios? Is it "attackers" trying to plex in systems with no possibility of docking, defenders being blobbed or somewhere in the middle? Numbers without details can be and often are deceiving, in this case they might well mean that permanent lock-out (see the FW Iteration SoonGäó thread in F&I for alternatives that are vastly superior to CCPs implementation) resulted in a FW spasms followed by death. LooknSee wrote: ... Awesome, another person to add to my "Hide Posts" list.

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